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== Parallel session P1-1: Detectors (chair: T. Cecil) == | == Parallel session P1-1: Detectors (chair: T. Cecil) == | ||
+ | *Introduction: 10mins [[Media:P1-1_Detectors_Argonne_CMB-S4_workshop.pdf |Intro Slides]] | ||
+ | *Discussion: 45 mins | ||
+ | *Wrap-up: 5 mins | ||
+ | References: | ||
+ | * Decadal Input Spreadsheet [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vulrDtktoweP96ceIK8lNZMWiyhTs9tOvlmepQgTH40/edit?usp=sharing | Link to spreadsheet] | ||
+ | * Strawperson Evaluation Tool [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rko9HBNesi_4tZ8n2H7_Ty9IxvElPz1ZdF8n5PNALXk/edit?usp=sharing | Link to evaluation tool] | ||
== Notes from session (Tuesday, March 6, 08:45-09:45) == | == Notes from session (Tuesday, March 6, 08:45-09:45) == | ||
+ | Four main topics to discuss: Bands / Dichroic groups, Detectors, Operating Temperature, and RF coupling | ||
+ | *Bands / Dicroic groups - discussion of bands as laid out in the CDT report | ||
+ | ** Question - are there advantages to trichroic pixels, or to having simplified optics | ||
+ | *** Suzanne: Are the MF bands in the CDT report a wide band? Why not make it as wide as possible | ||
+ | *** Adrian: this is a multidimensional space of cost, risk and sensitivity. What is the target? Trichroics would be more sensitive - more detector for the same telescope - but could be more cost or risk, e.g. 20/30/40 GHz tricrhoic would save real estate but is not sky demonstrated | ||
+ | *** Cecil - we want to lean towards deployed technology for the reference design and then highlight thing under development in the options section | ||
+ | *** Suzanne we need to make sure that in the detector section write assumption are compatible with those made in forcasting | ||
+ | *** suggestion to begin moving through bands from high to low to target areas with more agreement | ||
+ | ** Motion to use 220/270 as a dichroic grouping for both large and small apperture | ||
+ | *** Motion passes, one opposed | ||
+ | **Discussion on band selection in MF between large and small aperture telescopes | ||
+ | *** Clarence - need to be mindful of detector bandpass requirements. Can we make and test them to verify the benefit to the experiment | ||
+ | *** Is there an advantage to the extra split in MF for the small aperture telescopes (assume so, otherwise why include it) | ||
+ | *** foregroups are varying across the band. Narrower bands make the foregrounds easier. But this small change may not make a big difference. | ||
+ | ** Motion to do small aperture telescope at dichroic (no mention of changes from CDT report) | ||
+ | *** Motion passed, no opposition | ||
+ | ** Motion to do large MF dichroic for large aperture telescope, with trichroic (90/150/220) as possible in options section | ||
+ | *** Motion passes, no opposition | ||
+ | ** Discussion on band selection for LF | ||
+ | *** Do we want LF on large aperture telescope to be dichroic, or trichroic (20/30/40). Suggestion to put trichroic in options section | ||
+ | ** Motion to make LF in small aperture dicrhoic | ||
+ | *** Motion passes | ||
+ | ** Motion to make LF in large aperture dicrhoic (30/40) with stand along 20 GHz | ||
+ | *** Motion passes, one opposed (last motion of session and sense that topic may have been rushed) | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Detectors | ||
+ | ** Motion from Jeff that MKIDs not be considered for the reference design, but be included in the reference design, especially as an option for higher frequencies. | ||
+ | *** Second by Suzanne | ||
+ | *** motion passed, but not unanimous | ||
+ | |||
+ | * Base temperature | ||
+ | ** CDT calls for dilution fridge operation (~ 100mK operating temperature) | ||
+ | ** Question on what are power requirements? Is it just an extra pulse tube, or needed to circulate the mix? Is this a detector problem or site problem? | ||
+ | ** Dil fridge has been demonstrated in the field. | ||
+ | *** Has been demonstrated in the field (ACT and CLASS) | ||
+ | *** more information was requested on any limitations on boresight rotation with a dil fridge | ||
+ | ** Motion to use dil fridge for reference design | ||
+ | *** Motion passed | ||
+ | |||
+ | *Coupling to free space | ||
+ | **Do we want to have just one technology in the reference design, or list multiple viable options | ||
+ | *** Feedhorn and Lenslet have both been shown for dichroic bands, planar antenna is under development | ||
+ | ** Motion to not consider planar antenna for reference design, but put into options | ||
+ | *** Motion passed, one opposed | ||
+ | **For SO the technologies are split, with lenslet at LF, feedhorn at HF, and both at MF | ||
+ | *** feedhorn OMT fab can be an issue at LF (ACT has made 24 GHz, but not down to 20 GHz) | ||
+ | *** small lenslet fab can be an issue at HF (shown in mm-wave but not by CMB community) | ||
+ | ** Question on if this is a case where we have two good options, and do not need to pick one. Is the availability of two good options actually a plus for the decadal? | ||
+ | ** Discussion about what more information is needed. Can also see further discussion from Wed splinter session: | ||
+ | ** No final motions on RF coupling were voted on. Issue was put on hold for further discussion. |
Latest revision as of 13:18, 7 March 2018
Back to Argonne 2018 main page
Parallel session P1-1: Detectors (chair: T. Cecil)
- Introduction: 10mins Intro Slides
- Discussion: 45 mins
- Wrap-up: 5 mins
References:
- Decadal Input Spreadsheet | Link to spreadsheet
- Strawperson Evaluation Tool | Link to evaluation tool
Notes from session (Tuesday, March 6, 08:45-09:45)
Four main topics to discuss: Bands / Dichroic groups, Detectors, Operating Temperature, and RF coupling
- Bands / Dicroic groups - discussion of bands as laid out in the CDT report
- Question - are there advantages to trichroic pixels, or to having simplified optics
- Suzanne: Are the MF bands in the CDT report a wide band? Why not make it as wide as possible
- Adrian: this is a multidimensional space of cost, risk and sensitivity. What is the target? Trichroics would be more sensitive - more detector for the same telescope - but could be more cost or risk, e.g. 20/30/40 GHz tricrhoic would save real estate but is not sky demonstrated
- Cecil - we want to lean towards deployed technology for the reference design and then highlight thing under development in the options section
- Suzanne we need to make sure that in the detector section write assumption are compatible with those made in forcasting
- suggestion to begin moving through bands from high to low to target areas with more agreement
- Motion to use 220/270 as a dichroic grouping for both large and small apperture
- Motion passes, one opposed
- Discussion on band selection in MF between large and small aperture telescopes
- Clarence - need to be mindful of detector bandpass requirements. Can we make and test them to verify the benefit to the experiment
- Is there an advantage to the extra split in MF for the small aperture telescopes (assume so, otherwise why include it)
- foregroups are varying across the band. Narrower bands make the foregrounds easier. But this small change may not make a big difference.
- Motion to do small aperture telescope at dichroic (no mention of changes from CDT report)
- Motion passed, no opposition
- Motion to do large MF dichroic for large aperture telescope, with trichroic (90/150/220) as possible in options section
- Motion passes, no opposition
- Discussion on band selection for LF
- Do we want LF on large aperture telescope to be dichroic, or trichroic (20/30/40). Suggestion to put trichroic in options section
- Motion to make LF in small aperture dicrhoic
- Motion passes
- Motion to make LF in large aperture dicrhoic (30/40) with stand along 20 GHz
- Motion passes, one opposed (last motion of session and sense that topic may have been rushed)
- Question - are there advantages to trichroic pixels, or to having simplified optics
- Detectors
- Motion from Jeff that MKIDs not be considered for the reference design, but be included in the reference design, especially as an option for higher frequencies.
- Second by Suzanne
- motion passed, but not unanimous
- Motion from Jeff that MKIDs not be considered for the reference design, but be included in the reference design, especially as an option for higher frequencies.
- Base temperature
- CDT calls for dilution fridge operation (~ 100mK operating temperature)
- Question on what are power requirements? Is it just an extra pulse tube, or needed to circulate the mix? Is this a detector problem or site problem?
- Dil fridge has been demonstrated in the field.
- Has been demonstrated in the field (ACT and CLASS)
- more information was requested on any limitations on boresight rotation with a dil fridge
- Motion to use dil fridge for reference design
- Motion passed
- Coupling to free space
- Do we want to have just one technology in the reference design, or list multiple viable options
- Feedhorn and Lenslet have both been shown for dichroic bands, planar antenna is under development
- Motion to not consider planar antenna for reference design, but put into options
- Motion passed, one opposed
- For SO the technologies are split, with lenslet at LF, feedhorn at HF, and both at MF
- feedhorn OMT fab can be an issue at LF (ACT has made 24 GHz, but not down to 20 GHz)
- small lenslet fab can be an issue at HF (shown in mm-wave but not by CMB community)
- Question on if this is a case where we have two good options, and do not need to pick one. Is the availability of two good options actually a plus for the decadal?
- Discussion about what more information is needed. Can also see further discussion from Wed splinter session:
- No final motions on RF coupling were voted on. Issue was put on hold for further discussion.
- Do we want to have just one technology in the reference design, or list multiple viable options